In this episode, we’re talking about the Latino influence on American hip-hop culture. Whether through music, fashion, or even the evolution of language and slang, Latinos on both coasts have added more than a few beats to the urban sounds that have defined the last two generations. And while you can’t necessarily find these next two artists in the recording booth spitting bars, their work--particularly on the West Coast--has certainly captured the essence of hip-hop while simultaneously peppering in their Mexican-American identity or Chicanidad.
Our guests this week are the dynamic Chicano duo that’s turned Los Angeles into their personal and professional playground for the last 30 years. Estevan Oriol is a renowned photographer and music video director based in L.A and the mastermind behind the Netflix original documentary ‘L.A. Originals’ co-starring his friend and collaborator Mister Cartoon. Cartoon, himself, is one of the most sought-after tattoo and graffiti artists around who’s inked some of hip-hop’s most notorious. The film delves into their own respective journeys into becoming Chicano icons and explores what happened once their paths converged not just for themselves...but for the culture.
[Music]
Dascha: Welcome to Brown Love, the show where we get real about all the things Latinx communities are talking about on your timeline. Brought to you by Netflix and Con Todo. I'm your host, Dascha Polanco. Each week we'll be talking to Latinos in entertainment who are making space for our communities to see ourselves in all our complexity. While hip-hop's birthplace will always be New York City, its presence in Los Angeles, especially among Chicanos and Latinos overall, is undeniable. And it's not just in the music, it's in the look and the feel of hip-hop, which my guests fully embody. They're the dynamic Chicano duo at the center of Netflix original documentary, LA Originals. Renowned photographer Estevan Oriol both directs and stars in the film alongside his friend and collaborator Mister Cartoon. Cartoon is one of the most sought-after tattoo and graffiti artists in the world known for inking some of hip-hop's most notorious players, Eminem, Dr. Dre, Snoop Dogg, and even Beyoncé. And Estevan has documented both their and the genre's evolution for almost 30 years. The film delves into their own respective journeys into becoming hip-hop icons and explores what happened once their paths cross not just for themselves but for [Spanish 01:27]. Hi, guys. I'm Dascha.
Estevan: Hey, now.
Dascha: For those that are tuning in, this is Mr. Estevan Oriol and Mister Cartoon. And I wanted—first of all, I'm geeking out because I just saw your documentary, and it's such an honor. You guys make me proud. And I'm all the way from Brooklyn. But, hey, to know that Latinos across this country have been doing so much for the community for so long, it's important that we know your stories.
Estevan: For sure.
Dascha: So we're going to start off with basically talking about quarantine and what you guys been eating, have you been cooking more, what's it been like as far as food, and what's your favorite Latino dish, Mister Cartoon?
Cartoon: [Laughs] Does that mean me? You know, I was built for quarantine. I've been isolating for about six years ever since the shop, the old place downtown closed. Me being an artist, it's important that I isolate and that I focus on painting because it's so many hours behind it. So I kind of built my little studio so I'm comfortable in it, and it feels like I'm somewhere else. I'm getting ready now so when the gates open, we'll have some heat. We'll have something ready to go. So I take advantage of this type of time. As far as eating goes, bread, I try to stay away from bread. That's like crack. You know what I'm saying?
Dascha: I love bread.
Cartoon: Once you get 50 years old, you pretty much need someone around you to just say, "Don't eat that. Don't do it." So just cutting out all that junk, you know what I'm saying? I think not going to restaurants and having that freedom to just go pound food and all that, it's actually better. You know what I'm saying?
Dascha: Well, now we're forced to cook more or to eat more inside or order.
Cartoon: Exactly.
Dascha: And you, Mr. Estevan? What is your diet like during quarantine? What's your favorite Latino dish?
Estevan: I do eat vegan now, and my favorite Latino dish is those fake ground beef tacos or chorizo, the fake one with sweet potatoes. So it's like chorizo con papas. And, then, I make this jackfruit, and that's kind of like carnitas or chicken. I eat that with almond flour tortillas.
Dascha: Wow. Well, it's a great thing, especially now within quarantine. We really have to be cautious what we eat and, you know, but also embrace our dishes. So in order for us to educate our community, we also have to let them know that eating tacos—you can have eaten tacos and still be able to enjoy some tacos or Italian food. So I wanted to get a little bit personal. With all respect, I watched the documentary LA Originals. Amazing. Amazing. Amazing.
Estevan: Thank you.
Dascha: The trajectory—I mean, all I remember as a little girl is hearing the songs, seeing the art, but never knowing who was behind it, and why was that not represented, right? Why wasn't that pushed frontward? And, so, for me your influence, how you shaped the community, how you documented the west coast hip-hop, the culture as artists is something that I wanted to highlight and talk about. Before I even go into the personal, how do you guys identify? Mexican American, Chicano, Latinx? Because there's a lot of terms that have developed now, and you guys come from an area where these terms did not exist. So what do you identify with, Mister Cartoon?
Cartoon: I identify as being a Chicano. Somewhere, a time in the '60s, they started to become more aware of our roots and say, you know what? I don't even—I have a hard time even throwing American behind my name. You know what I'm saying? Just because I was born on this side of the land, but this was us long before. This was Mexico, California before.
Dascha: That's right.
Cartoon: If you look back in time, we've always been here. So that whole idea of the wall and the immigration, it's still North Ameri- —Mexico's still North America. So I'm from Mexican descent, so my parents go—my grandparents go back to Mexico, right? So each generation starts to Americanize and all that. But once you get a little bit of Chicano studies in you, and you start to understand your heritage, you see what all Latinos have in common. And even that word Latino is being—people are skeptical of that word. You know what I'm saying? They create words to describe us, right, on a document, on a government form. So that's where a lot of this Hispanic and these words come from, the government trying to say what we are, we are.
Dascha: Yeah. Now, Mr. Estevan, what do you identify with?
Estevan: I identify as a Mexican, Italian, and Chicano, and of course, American because I've traveled the world. I embrace my identity. We have so much freedom here and so much ability to do whatever you want to do.
Dascha: Obviously, you guys are success stories of what it is to descent from the immigrant story, right? Mister Cartoon, where did you grow up in LA?
Cartoon: I grew up in the Harbor Area of LA. I went to school in Torrance and graduated from San Pedro High School. So San Pedro is the end of the 110. So you have everybody there. You have Crips. You have the homies, the [unintelligible 07:04] in the projects. But we have beautiful lowriders and beautiful parks. San Pedro's known for being a beautiful city even though there's ghetto in it. It's maintaining it. And a lot of classic cars are BOMBS.
Dascha: So has it changed a lot now? Obviously, because I know that cities do change with time and gentrification. But does it still have that essence, or has it changed dramatically? Can you go back and still—
Cartoon: It's kind of like Coney Island where it's the last ungentrified—you see it coming, right? You know it's coming. You know it's by the water.
Dascha: Pushing through.
Cartoon: It's beautiful right there. It's only a matter of time before it's all hipsters and wheatgrass drinks and rock-climbing places.
Dascha: [Laughs] Rock climbing.
Cartoon: But right now, it still has that 'hood. There's still housing projects right there, way twisted back if you go over there and try to fuck around. You know what I mean? It's still a violent city, a violent area. But a lot of times—the police, you know, they buried people under the jails, man. They give long, long extended time in prison, and it breaks up things. But you don't see 50 homeboys on the front line no more throwing up gang signs. They're in the back yard. You can't see them in the front. So everything went underground. They're on the rooftop looking down with binoculars. Things are different. But as long as drugs are illegal in the United States, there'll be gangs. But it's still a beautiful place to grow up. There's music, classic cars, just that area is similar to where E grew up in Santa Monica.
Dascha: Estevan, you grew up in Santa Monica.
Estevan: Yep. I grew up in the Westside of LA.
Dascha: So Santa Monica has changed, right, from you growing up, right?
Estevan: Yeah. Nothing like it was. The only thing that's the same is by the Santa Monica Pier and the beach.
Dascha: Yeah. I mean it's changing—I think it's—the experience that you guys have had, I think it's continuing—it will continue because New York City has losses as well. Now, we say that we want to make it more, of course, beautiful. But why is it not beautiful when we have such art? And I love the grit. I love the culture that we bring to the communities. That being said, as artists, I know that we also get influenced by our families and our experiences growing up and how we were raised and where we were raised. And I know that your fathers did some creative work. Cartoon, your dad had a print shop. And Estevan, your father was a photographer. How did they influence you guys and in what you do? And if so, how were you encouraged in pursuing your careers?
Cartoon: My parents were very open minded to art, and they were artistic. Both of my parents can draw. But they looked at it as hobby. "Oh, that's nice, mijo. You like to draw." That's how my mom would look at it. She never was like, "Hey, you can become a professional artist." For my family and for my area, you became a blue-collar worker. You know what I mean? You didn't go become an artist, man. My parents never even really knew anybody that was a professional artist other than the print shop people. So when the print shop guys would come and they would drop off their artwork, my mom would call me and say, "Mijo, look. This guy went to art school. You can tell the way he presents his artwork." And I would study it. And then I would mimic that guy. So when I would do artwork, I would turn it in the same way that he did. So it was like I cheated certain things, and I made myself look professional at a young age from just mimicking things that I liked and noticing professional artists. But they were open to it.
Dascha: Well, influencing and imitation is part of being an artist, right? What influences you, what you imitate is part of being an artist. So I think it's—it definitely allows you to evolve as an artist. But you definitely—it seems that you had encouraging parents. So your parents encouraged you when you decided to pursue the career, right?
Cartoon: Yeah. They not only encouraged me. I have a very rare set of parents that, you know, they've been married for 50 years. They're still in love. It's rare that you land on a set of people like that. My old man's a semipro stand-up comedian. So I just got all that influence, man. And my parents definitely told me, they were like, "Son, what can we do to help you?" They were those type of parents, crazy supportive. I don't know. And, then, my old man used to—he wasn't religious, but he would play self-help videos—tapes on cassette in the pad. He tortured me with that as a kid. But somewhere in my brain, all the self-help shit went in and brainwashed me to thinking I was dope. I can do anything. I can make—I can achieve, but me and Estevan, we had no idea of this. But we just wanted to be in the community. We wanted to just be working. We wanted to be just doing dope shit amongst our peers. That's what mattered to us.
Dascha: Exactly. Well, what about you, Estevan?
Estevan: Well, my dad was a photographer and a painter along with a community worker. And he always would take me to museums or art shows or to like the beach or somewhere in nature as a kid whenever I got to spend time with him. They divorced when I was three, so I would go to my dad's on holidays and during the summer and be around him and his family.
Dascha: And pardon me, but in the documentary, he did give you your first camera?
Estevan: Yeah. So he always would take me to museums and exhibitions and stuff, and he would explain the artist to me and the kind of art it was. And I thought it was cool, but I could never—I didn't see, like, I could ever be somebody that drew or paint. So the last thing that he introduced me to was photography. And he gave me an extra camera that his wife had. It was a Minolta SR-2 SE. And he was like, "Hey, man, you're in these two worlds that they contrast you, but they're still—they're cool. They're still—they're all you." One was lowriding in East LA, and the other was touring with a hip-hop band around the world.
Dascha: And we're going to cover that right now. Because I wanted to ask you guys when did you first start listening to hip-hop, and do you remember the first tape that you listened to, the first CD? And then that'll be our whole introduction to the hip-hop world, which I want to get into and ask you so many questions. So save that. Now, Mr. Estevan, when did you first start listening to hip-hop?
Estevan: I first started listening to hip-hop in the '80s, and it was "The Message" and "Rapper's Delight". Once I heard those two songs, I was sprung out.
Dascha: What about you, Mister Cartoon?
Cartoon: My first one was probably "White Lines". I think that they would play on a regular station. I was like, "Man, are they talking about coke?" That would blow me away. I didn't really know when I was a kid. And then if I found out, man, it was like some real, "Man, I can't believe that's on the radio," and all that shit. But KDAY was the only place we could get that music and Tony A. You had a time there too that Latin freestyle, a time when Beat Street was coming out. You know what I'm saying?
Dascha: And what a time to be part of the beginning of it all, right, to be able to witness the beginning and be so successful. And I know that, Estevan, you started doing security that led to your job as a tour manager for Cypress Hill. And mind you, I used to listen to Cypress Hill, and I never knew that they were Latinos. I was a little girl listening to—of course, you're in Brooklyn. You're in New York.
Estevan: [Unintelligible 15:20].
Dascha: You know what I mean? It's like, "Oh, okay." Because it wasn't something that we had to mention. At least I don't remember it, right? Did you consider yourself, Estevan, a member of the group? I want to hear more of that experience of the Cypress Hill. Were you aware that this was the first Latino hip-hop group?
Estevan: I consider myself a member of House of Pain and Cypress Hill because when I started with House of Pain, there was four of us on the road. And we were together 24/7 all those days on the road, and it was just me and them. And when I moved over to Cypress Hill, it was the same, but I took on maybe three more jobs when I was rolling with them. So I was doing photography. I was filming. And for a few years, I even DJ'd along with tour managing, which was setting up their press, doing all the merch, doing all the traveling, doing the accounting, and making sure that they got to shows on time and that everything was set up for them. That one hour you're on stage is very stressful because if you mess up, you're messing up in front of anywheres from 10,000 to 100,000 people. That's—you know how it goes in life, right? People remember the one time you messed up, not the 99 times you did something great also.
Dascha: And they don't see the prep time either, right? They don't see how much it took to just perform that one hour. Exactly. So in the doc, you were with Cypress Hill at Woodstock '94, which had legends like Santana, Aerosmith, Metallica, and more. Are there any backstage memories that you have with the guys or seeing other iconic artists there that you remember?
Estevan: Well, me and Bobo from Cypress Hill, that was our first gig working with Cypress Hill. I had left House of Pain, and I flew from LA to Woodstock. And then me and him both caught a helicopter, and they flew us in the backstage. There's two ways to get there: boat and helicopter. We were too late to come on a boat, so they flew us in with Jefferson Airplane, two of the members of Jefferson Airplane. So it was a trip to be on a four-seat helicopter with two of the original guys that were at the original Woodstock and then us two. And we landed backstage, and Henry Rollins was playing, and he was real good. All the fans were into it. And he was going off, and then Cypress came on. And I don't know if it was "Kill a Man" or me going out like that. Came on and the whole crowd just went buck wild. Days prior to the concert it had rained, so they had put plywood all on the ground for the fans. And once that song came out, you could just see mud flying and kids going out of their mind. And they started taking the plywood off of the floor and picking it up, and then they'd throw a kid up on top of the plywood. You know how they do that crowd surfing.
Dascha: Yeah.
Estevan: Well, they were handing the pieces of plywood with the kid really surfing on the plywood through the crowd. And there was ten of those went around. We're like, "Oh, look at this." And B and Sen got so pumped up that they jumped off the stage, and B jumped into the crowd and they took his shoes off. They were pulling his chain and his shirt and ripping his shirt. He's trying to rap while 20 people are pulling him in every direction and staying on meter. And he did, you know, if you go back and look at the tapes.
Dascha: And, so, you were able to capture that.
Estevan: Yeah. If you look on the DVDs, you can hear that. I was a little younger and a little more handsome, had more hair.
Dascha: That's amazing. That's amazing. Who's been the most photographed musician or figure of your career?
Estevan: I would say Cartoon. [Laughs]
Cartoon: Yeah.
Estevan: Second is Cypress Hill, of course, because those are the people that I spent the most time with. It's cool when somebody gives you work, and they're helping elevate your career. And, then, you get into a position where you can give back to them.
Dascha: That's how hip-hop, that's how our community, our Latin community, I think, is most powerful is when we start opening the door for one another and start elevating one another. And it shows in your partnership. And that being said, I wanted to speak to Mister Cartoon because I know you started in graffiti and airbrush on lowriders. But I want you to explain the first moment that you met Estevan. And what was that like?
Cartoon: Well, it was love at first sight. That's for sure. You know what I'm saying? [Laughs] No, man. Meeting E, we were already on our own trip. He was already doing what he was doing, and I was already on my mission. So when we met, it was weird for me to meet someone that was already doing what I was—I was just going to Japan for my first time. And he's like, "Yeah. I just got back from Japan." Because to my homeboys where I grew up, I'd be like, "Hey, man. I'm going to Japan." They're like, "Man, what the fuck you going to China for, bro?" I'm like, "No. It's Japan." "Ah. What's the difference?" These fuckers had never—the only time they left on a bus was to be handcuffed. You know what I'm saying? So it's, like, it was left out of town. So the homies had no idea of what it was. If you're not in the military or you're not in some other way, why you would travel to those places. So to meet someone that was already down with that, I was like, "Oh, shit. Okay. I'm doing the right thing." He told me, "Do every interview you can do." If someone says, "Hey, man. You want to do an interview?"—little ass magazine somewhere—"Yeah. I'll do that shit." You just do everything. That person might end up working at The Source or something. At The Source, showing our age with that one I feel like.
Dascha: The Source.
Cartoon: Hey, that's how we got news. You know what I'm saying? Our news, we had to wait for The Source to come out. And Estevan shot me one time for The Source, XXL, Complex.
Dascha: It was The Source. All those magazines, for us, I think it was more relatable for our Latin community to relate to hip-hop more than anything here in America. It was something relatable, the struggle, the grittiness, the resilience, the moving forward, the finding the beauty and capturing—whether it was with your photography, Estevan, or with your art—to capture how beautiful that our culture is. Well, I wanted to ask you—since you do tattoos. Today you're one of the biggest tattoo artists in the game. How much would a tattoo cost from you?
Cartoon: We do easy financing. You know what I'm saying?
[Laughter]
Cartoon: We just do a quick credit check. You know, it's—tattooing's crazy because no matter how much I charge, you're going to have the tattoo longer than I'm going to have the money. So, if you think about it that way, they're practically free. They just give themselves away. And you're just paying, really, for the convo.
Dascha: How do you determine it? And not to discredit your art, it's art. How do you determine the cost of it?
Cartoon: Well, I gave myself a raise with that Netflix, when that came out. So, if you haven't got in already, man. But let me tell you what.
Dascha: My hope just went down. My hope just went—
[Laughter]
Cartoon: No. You just got to, instead of re-doing your bathroom or upgrading your kitchen, you just come and get a tattoo.
Dascha: Okay. I wanted to speak about the LA Originals documentary. What an amazing documentary. Honestly. It was just so important, and it's just the right time. People are home. People are watching it. What made you, Estevan, want to create the LA Originals documentary?
Estevan: Well, I had all this footage from 25 years of traveling around the world and documenting so many different cultures or genres. Most of the time I was with Cartoon, so I had a lot of footage of him tattooing, airbrushing, drawing, and, then, I was on tour with Cypress Hill. And, then, we just had all these different types of people coming through our spot, and it was kind of like a spider web. Once we'd get up in there for whatever it was, like, if somebody would come in for a logo, we'd set up and like, hey, can you do a photo? We want to do a photo shoot, you want to do a video, you want to get a tattoo or vice versa, whatever they would come in for, we'd hit them with every kind of thing that we could do.
Dascha: There was a lot of famous people that I did not expect to see in the LA Originals. Because when you first see the documentary, you're like, "Okay. We're going to know about both of you." But, then, when we see how many people you guys were involved with and either by photography or tattoo, I was taken by surprise when I saw Kobe, right?
Estevan: Yeah. The crazy part about the documentary is that's only a scratch on the surface of footage of people and things that we have throughout all those years. When we got to interview Kobe—when you go to interview or work with someone at that level, they give you a time slot and how much time and have other people there watching you. It's that type of a situation. But he was so cool about it. He was like, "I got this." You know what I mean? "Let me just do my thing." I met Kobe at our studio. He first came with his wife to get a logo for a Charlie & Co. she was going to do. And we were kind of like—I don't know—I was kind of starstruck when I saw him. And I was like, "Man, I want to get a picture of Kobe, but I don't want to be a weirdo." So I didn't. So we'll just meet him this time. And the next time they come back and look at the logo, we'll talk to them about the tattoos and the photo shoots and stuff or, you know, doing a photo. When he did come back to get a tattoo, I was out of town. But Cartoon got a couple of tattoos in on him. And, then, when it came time to do the documentary, that's the time when I got to get a couple flix of him.
Dascha: Yay. That's amazing. Mister Cartoon, what tattoo did Kobe get?
Cartoon: Well, Kobe had already got a bunch of tattoos on his arm. So he came in and suggested his daughters' names. So I added a couple of his daughters, fixed up—kind of make a sleeve out of his existing tattoos. It's hard not to get flabbergasted with someone like him. He did end up coming back and tied in. Those times you get to chopping it up. Even when he did his interview with Estevan, he's like, "Man, this came out crazy." It's hard to sit on that. It's an age of social media. No one even keeps secrets no more. They don't even surprise you, man. Every once in a while, you get a Kobe in. We did that interview, and we had to just sit on it and not let no one know till they seen it on Netflix. So that was exciting. Well, it's kind of sad. It was real sad. I was like, "Man, you almost want to cry at that part seeing him talk."
Dascha: Of course. It's something that you guys—look, we're energies. We're lights. We serve our purpose, and then we go on to the next level. And speaking of mystery and protecting the brand, you tattooed Beyoncé. And I had no idea she even had a tattoo.
Cartoon: She has a tiny one.
Dascha: When I saw that, I was like—
Cartoon: Yeah. It's a tiny one by her bikini line.
Dascha: What? Obviously, you catch her saying, "Don't film this." But how was that? What was that experience like with her because at the time, she was with Destiny's Child, right?
Cartoon: Yeah. I think she was just going solo at that point. It's huge. Then I get to call you once in a while and be like, "Hey, I got one now." [Laughs] We meet other artists. We look at them as artists. Whether you sing, you act, you draw, we're in the same world. We've got to take an invisible thought in our head and manifest it somehow. And E does it when he's able to capture you. He's able to capture your look and know your best look for you. You know what I'm saying? He's not going to make you look corny because a lot of these photographers, oh man, they'll get you out there, try to get you to, "Hey, can you put your shoulder right here?" I'm not going to reenact it, but they have you out there [unintelligible 28:27].
Dascha: Speaking of people and presence and—you captured, Estevan, Nipsey Hussle back in the day. And he's certainly considered a poet in the hip-hop community. What quality of his stuck with you that most translated on the camera?
Estevan: Just he was a go-getter, a hustler that got—he had a vision of what he wanted and where he wanted to be in life. And he went—he pounded the pavement. He ran harder to them. He gots there. He thought about his community. To me, he was an inspiration.
Dascha: He will always be. I think it's important that we always highlight the individuals that continue to rise and continue to—not by themselves but with their community. That's what makes true leaders, right, and icons. And speaking of icons and leaders, do you feel like you get enough recognition or credit for the role you've played in the culture? We'll start with Mister Cartoon.
Cartoon: I think people have to make their own opinions about things, but I just do it to be a member. You know what I mean? I look at people as my peers. You know what I mean? I feel like a 20-year-old vandal doing graffiti, like in my head or the way I approach life or the way I approach my art. Then I look in the mirror, and I see someone else staring back at me. I don't really look at it like I need these guys to pat me on the back. But I got into it through other people, and I try to let them know that. Being able to meet someone like [unintelligible 30:09] or [unintelligible 30:11] or [unintelligible 30:12] East Coast, able to say what's up to them and thank them for breaking down those doors. But, yeah, I think that there's a lot of respect still out there in the tattoo world and Latino, Chicano world of art where people give you a lot of credit, more love than anything.
Dascha: Yes. Definitely. What about you, Estevan?
Estevan: It's the response that we've gotten from everybody that's seen it has been the real reward of all the hard work that we've put into it. I get, like, people say that I've watched it five times. I've watched it eight times. People have cried at several parts of the movie, which makes me feel like we did our job. I think if you tell—if you're doing art, you're telling stories that—the main thing that you want to do is not only show something great visually but you also want to bring out different kinds of emotion. For me, I think we did it.
Dascha: Damn right. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. [Clapping] And you so deserve it. Listen, we need that. We need that. And there's a lot of movement for us, for the Latino, Lantinx. There's a lot of movement right now. And it's a beautiful thing for you guys to create hope and inspire us, for us to be able to embrace things that we were once excluded from, right? And now we've made our job to be like we belong here too. We can also tattoo. We can also take pictures. We can also direct. We can also provide a multi-service whether it's a logo, whether it's whatever. But we can embrace this culture, and I think it's amazing what you guys have done with the documentary, with your story, with your hard work, with your experience.
Cartoon: Thank you.
Dascha: It's a beautiful thing. It makes me very proud.
Cartoon: And we're proud of you too. You've been giving us a lot of props, and we've had our eye on you too. You've been keeping it classy, and you keep it gangsta when you need to in some of your roles. You put a good—I have two daughters. You know what I'm saying? So you're a good example of someone that's proud of their heritage and that's able to influence these young little girls, man, that they could do that.
Dascha: Thank you. Thank you for those kind words. They're always appreciated. Thank you.
[Music]
Dascha: [Spanish 32:48]. One of the most fascinating elements of hip-hop culture, of course, is graffiti as evidenced by Mister Cartoon's growing LA legacy. But it's different in New York City where subway cars sometimes have more spray paint than actual paint. You can literally see hip-hop running through the city's veins, and that's been part of its appeal for the past 40 years. At this point though, it's impossible to know the name of every tagger who made their mass-transit mark, but we definitely know one of the first. In fact, she's known as the first lady of graffiti. Sandra Fabara or Lady Pink is an Ecuador native who moved to New York City in the late '70s. By 1979, the then high school freshman was already writing graffiti and painting subway cars better than her male counterparts—yep, mm-hmm—which she'd do until 1985. While Lady Pink's early subway art is now a part of hip-hop lore, her later work has appeared at the Met, the Whitney, and the Brooklyn Museum—Brooklyn. And today, she teaches workshops to teens and young adults. Go ahead, girl. Lady Pink, a pioneer. And that, [Spanish 34:07], is your quick dose of Latino history. [Spanish 34:10].
[Music]
Dascha: So the next segment is two little games called Brown Love and [Spanish 34:25] Con Todos. So we're going to start with Brown Love. And I'm just going to ask you questions, and you have to answer them. We're going to get a little romantic. So the first one, is getting a tattoo with a name of a significant other a mistake?
Cartoon: No. It's a sign of commitment and love and respect.
Dascha: Do you have any?
Cartoon: I do. I have my wife's name on me right on my neck.
Dascha: Wow. And for you, Estevan?
Estevan: Oh, of course. I've got the name right here. I've got the photo on my back.
Dascha: Okay. So it's not a mistake, guys. It's a sign of love. So if you're going to do it, make sure that you love the person.
Cartoon: You love that person.
Estevan: It's part of your story, you know. For us over here, most of our tattoos are from parts of our life. No disrespect to them but there's people that do tribal bands and stuff like that—
Dascha: I have a tramp stamp with a tribal.
Cartoon: We could change that. Remix it. We could do the 2020 remix.
Dascha: [Laughs] But it was a time in my life before it was called that.
Cartoon: Yeah.
Dascha: But it was a time of like, "Hey, I'm 21. Here I go. Yeah." I don't care. I still rock it very proudly because it's part of me, and I loved it. And it is what it is. Now, what's been your secret to a good marriage, especially given how crazy busy your careers have been?
Cartoon: It's a 50-50. You know what I'm saying? You try to figure out what makes your wife really pissed off and try not to do that. And, then, you've got to surprise them every once in a while.
Dascha: Keep your wife happy.
Cartoon: Yeah. You got to come off the wall and surprise them and do some cool shit, keep them on their toes. Because everyone's trying to get at them when they go to the supermarket. So you got to be spontaneous, and you got to stay fly too. Your shit got to be fresh.
Dascha: And what about you, Mr. Estevan?
Estevan: Just been a lot of compromising. Everybody is different in what they want and what they need. So you got to always meet somebody halfway or 80 percent of the way. It's a lot of hard work.
Dascha: That's right. Compromise, being spontaneous. These are all good things, guys. Please take notes for those that are in a relationship.
[Music]
Dascha: Now, let's move on to the last game. This one is called [Spanish 36:37] Con Todo. So the first one will be, what music are you listening to right now?
Cartoon: I'll start off. I'll say I've been tripping on this kid named Anderson Paak. He's a trip. He's from LA. He did a song with Smokey Robinson. He was one of Dr. Dre's artists. And the kid named Daniel Caesar, a girl named H.E.R.
Dascha: Oh, I love H.E.R. Yes.
Cartoon: Jessie Reyez, all these kids that—
Dascha: Jessie Reyez too. Oh, my God. Amazing.
Cartoon: Crazy talent.
Dascha: And for you, Mr. Estevan?
Estevan: A guy named Joey Quinones. He has a band he's also a part of called Thee Sinseers. And his thing is he plays old school soul music, but he had—but he's present now. And he plays all the instruments himself. It's all him. He records it all analog.
Dascha: Wow. Okay. A song that defines LA to you. And Mr. Estevan, you can answer.
Estevan: I would say WC, "This is Los Angeles".
Dascha: And Mister Cartoon, a song that defines LA to you?
Cartoon: Man, I think about Tupac right off the bat or Snoop Dogg. But I'll say Kid Frost, "La Raza".
Dascha: Okay. Or Cartoon how many songs name drop you?
Cartoon: Man, a couple. I've been in a Rick Ross song. I've been in an Eminem song, "The Game", [unintelligible 38:00] Paul Wall, Slim Thug, Skank. [Unintelligible 38:03]. I'm forgetting some shit.
Dascha: Awesome. So that concludes our game portion. It wasn't like a game. It was a quick question and answer kind of thing. But to wrap up the interview, I wanted both of you to send a message and affirmation to the Latinx or hip-hop community from Mister Cartoon and Estevan to—just a quick short message from both of you to the community.
Cartoon: Yeah. This is your homey, Mister Cartoon. Man, to all the Latinx, all the homies out there, stay focused. Don't let no one get you down. Get clear in your head of what it is that you want in life. And then put a lot of energy, a lot of action behind that. Surround yourself by talent like how we do. And see you at the top.
Dascha: And Mr. Estevan?
Estevan: Just work hard. There's no shortcuts, and like David Goggins would say, "Stay hard."
Dascha: Stay hard. So you already heard it here live and proud. At Brown Love, stay hard, boo. Stay hard.
Cartoon: That's right. Brown pride.
Dascha: [Clapping] Thank you so much. Pero blessings for your family, for everything you do. And we'll see each other soon.
Cartoon: Appreciate that.
Dascha: Thank you so much.
[Music]
Dascha: This show was produced by Netflix, Con Todo, and me, Dascha Polanco. If you like what you heard, be sure to rate and subscribe on iTunes, Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts. And don't forget to follow @contodonetflix on Instagram and Twitter for all things Latinx on Netflix. Also, follow me @sheisdash. I've been your host, Dascha Polanco. [Spanish 39:46]. [Blows kiss]