This week, host Dascha Polanco gazes through the lens of acclaimed director and cinematographer Nadia Hallgren. The Bronx filmmaker of Puerto Rican descent is behind ‘Becoming,’ the new Netflix documentary about former First Lady Michelle Obama, and joins us to celebrate the work of Latino creatives behind the camera and to share the thrill of calling your own shots in a crowded, competitive field. Brown Love is produced by @ConTodoNetflix, a social community for Latino creators and fans alike to come together and celebrate their #LatinXcellence, in collaboration with Dascha Polanco.
This week, host Dascha Polanco gazes through the lens of acclaimed director and cinematographer Nadia Hallgren. The Bronx filmmaker of Puerto Rican descent is behind ‘Becoming,’ the new Netflix documentary about former First Lady Michelle Obama, and joins us to celebrate the work of Latino creatives behind the camera and to share the thrill of calling your own shots in a crowded, competitive field.
Brown Love is produced by @ConTodoNetflix, a social community for Latino creators and fans alike to come together and celebrate their #LatinXcellence, in collaboration with Dascha Polanco.
[Music]
Dascha: Welcome to Brown Love, the show where we get real about all the things Latinx communities are talking about on your timeline. Brought to you by Netflix and Con Todo, I’m your hose Dascha Polanco. Each week we’ll be talking to Latino’s in entertainment who are making space for our communities to see ourselves in all our complexity.
[Music]
Dascha: To tell authentic stories about our communities, we don’t just need to see ourselves on screen. We also need the opportunity to shape our narratives from behind the camera. But in Hollywood diversity in the director’s chair is nearly non-existent. According to a recent report from the Annenberg Inclusion Initiative. Only 4% of the top 1200 theatrical releases over the last ten years were directed by Latinos and only one director was a Latina woman out of more than 1300 directors over a ten-year span, one. That’s just crazy to me. The industry has a lot of work to do. Knowing just how many obstacles there are for Latina directors, I’m extremely proud and excited to be talking to this week’s guest Nadia Hallgren. Nadia is an award-winning director and cinematographer of Boricua descent who was chosen by former first lady, Michelle Obama, to direct the Netflix Original documentary Becoming. She’s also the director of Oscar contending short film, After Maria, which followed Puerto Rican families displaced by Hurricane Maria in 2018.
[Music]
Dascha: From her New York home Hallgren talked to me about her journey to film-making, the light she’s chosen to shine on her Latino community and what it was like following one of the world’s most famous women.
[Music]
Dascha: Nadia, welcome. So, nice to meet you, first of all, such an honor.
Nadia: Than, you Dascha, it’s really nice to meet you.
Dascha: Oh, my God, I’m so excited. Well, you know, every episode I like to do a little ice breaker. I’m starting off with quarantine cooking, first of all because we’re all in quarantine. What are you eating these days at home? Are you cooking? What’s your appetite like? What’s going on?
Nadia: Sure. So, at the beginning I was doing really well, I was kind of sticking to a diet, I was on a strong exercise regimen. And then, about a month in I fell off a little bit, I got really into cooking and sort of bringing back old recipes that I haven’t had in a long time and trying some new ones. So, I’ve been eating a lot more than usual, actually.
Dascha: Like what? Like what? Do you have a favorite Puerto Rican dish, anything?
Nadia: Oh, man.
Dascha: Like what’s your favorite food?
Nadia: Me and my mom—so, my mom lives a block away from me and we’re both quarantining so it’s totally safe for us to hang out. So, we made bacalao yesterday.
Dascha: Ay que rico.
Nadia: Yes, which is our favorite family dish. And I made a pastelon, which, yes. You know, not a lot of people know about this dish but it’s sort of called the Puerto Rican lasagna. It’s layers of flopping a maduro with—I don’t eat meat so, I did it with biami [phonetic 00:03:08], ground meat and that’s not the most healthiest dish but it’s very delicious. Yeah, I’ve been doing Dominican style pepper steak also with…
Dascha: Ay que rico, que rico.
Nadia: Yeah, me too.
Dascha: I mean these are all good foods. It’s just like incorporating like our flavors. I mean, I don’t know. People live long in the Highlands, you know, and they eat these things.
Nadia: I try to do it as healthy as possible but it’s funny, I was in San Francisco when we sort of realized that the lockdown was going to happen. And so, my mom was like, “Me and your sister are going to Costco. What do you want?” And I was like, I don’t know, I need a big Adobo and five boxes of Sazon and five Bustelo’s. And then I came home and it was all on my table and I was like, “I don’t know how long I’m going to last at this but—this is so Puerto Rican.”
Dascha: You need the Bustelo, you need the Adobo, you need the sofrito. I mean—
Nadia: Yeah.
Dascha: … listen, it’s what we’ve grown up by and what makes us feel most home. And that being said, so, were you born in Puerto Rico? What do you identify with as a Latinx member of our community?
Nadia: Oh, I’m born and raised in the Bronx. I guess I see myself totally as like a Nuyorican. But I’m also half black, so it’s this identity of being a black Nuyorican from the South Bronx, that New York has—it’s a very strong sort of excitement to who we are.
Dascha: I mean, listen, it’s our roots basically.
Nadia: Yeah.
Dascha: And growing up in the Bronx, can you talk about some of the images you associate with your childhood?
Nadia: Yeah, so actually my childhood was, you know, when I look back it was really incredible. We didn’t have much, I grew up in an area called Soundview and it’s one of the neighborhoods where hip hop was like first invented. So, I was like, you know, a six-year-old kid in the 80s and jams in the park that were going from big speakers plugged into lamp posts and flipping out mattresses. Like that was my childhood growing up. And then, usually there’d be some type of shoot out or something and then we’d all go home.
Dascha: Of course.
Nadia: Yes, so that’s how I grew up. But I think the family and community warmth was always present and so that’s the way my roots are.
Dascha: And so, you grew up—do you live in the Bronx now?
Nadia: I don’t, I just left the Bronx two years ago. I was like, “I’m getting old and I’ve never lived anywhere else in my life. I didn’t go far, I’m between the East Village and Rockaway Beach, right now, I’m on Rockaway Beach, yeah.
Dascha: Okay, okay.
Nadia: Still New York.
Dascha: So, you’re still in New York, you’re still home.
Nadia: Totally.
Dascha: You’re still home. I always love when people like, you know, they stay home and they’re like, “Look, I could travel but I could come back and stay grounded.” And I think ground-ness and family is huge in our community. Your grandmother, I hear, migrated from Puerto Rico to the States. And you grew up with your grandmother?
Nadia: I did, yes. I did grow up with my grandmother. It’s one of those, also sort of, very Nuyorican stories where I grew up with my grandmother but my mom never taught me to speak Spanish. So, I’m not really sure how we ever communicated, it was really weird. Like she used to babysit me and I would be with her all the time but my Spanish is not very developed. But I did grow up with my grandmother, yeah.
Dascha: But you understand it?
Nadia: I wish I could say I understood it better. I’m very embarrassed by this, by the way. So, just, you know—
Dascha: Why, why, why, why, why? Why are you embarrassed?
Nadia: I mean, it’s one of those things where I could blame my mother to a point that my Spanish isn’t better. But I’m an adult and, you know, I could have taken it upon myself to learn. But it’s one of those things that I’ve found difficult to pick up later in life, yeah.
Dascha: Well, it is difficult to learn a language, especially when you don’t use it every day. But also, when your surroundings are predominately English, right?
Nadia: Yeah.
Dascha: And growing up in New York, I think that’s something that we could all relate to. Where either we do know the language or our language starts fusing and become Spanglish and then we create our own terminology. But what are some of the memories that you remember about growing up with your grandmother and the introduction to Puerto Rico, right?
Nadia: Yeah, yeah. My grandmother, she lived in the projects on Brook Avenue and she had extra bedrooms and she had—
Dascha: I get my nails done there, by the way. So, go ahead, go ahead. In the projects, yes, I do. Go ahead.
Nadia: That’s real. So, she had a whole room dedicated to her santa’s and so, she had like her alters and she did like Santa Maria and all this stuff.
Dascha: Yes.
Nadia: And I was always like scared to go in that room because I didn’t really understand it but it’s so funny. So, like that was it, you know, of course music and cooking were a really big part for me. I think that’s probably where we bonded the most. I’ve always been interested in cooking and she just made the most amazing food that to this day I’m like, “Ma, do my beans taste like hers?” And I would send her like—I would make beans and bring them to her and be like, “Are they—” And she would be like, “They taste just like mine.” I’m like, “No they don’t, what’s the secret?”
Dascha: So, is it safe to say that you had an ancestral connection with your grandmother, your food via music, via a sense of storytelling, right?
Nadia: Absolutely, yeah.
Dascha: So, there was definitely a connection that not necessarily people have to understand. Sometimes we feel not enough, sometimes we feel embarrassed because our language might not be the same. But there’s so many other ways to communicate and to be able to feel that connection to our roots. And so, to hear you speak you can sense the pride of being Puerto Rican, Boricua.
Nadia: Hm-hmm [affirmative].
Dascha: Embracing your Latina roots, right?
Nadia: Yes.
Dascha: So, I wanted to know, when did that love for filmmaking ignite?
Nadia: Yeah, so, my story is that I started going to a local community arts center in the South Bronx called The Point. And The Point was this cultural space where people came together and they played music and they did art and I got interested in photography. And so, there was a photography program there and that’s really where my understanding of documentary and storytelling came together. And so, some of our assignments, and I was still a teenager, where to go out into our neighborhoods and take photos. And tell stories through photos and, you know, I think for the very first time I was able to see all of sort of the beauty but the struggle that our communities were experiencing. In a way that I never had the words to articulate but I felt like the images that I saw were telling those stories. And so, for me, that just touched me very deeply, I don’t think I quite understood, in the moment, how much. But it really helped me understand the conditions that we lived in. Why did we live different from everyone else? You know? It’s one of like the poorest communities in the country. And it really sort of started, it kind of sparked that interest in me to start looking deeper into understanding our own condition. And through story telling and, again, in ways that I never had the words to articulate.
Dascha: So, had you already visited Puerto Rico at that point in your life?
Nadia: I hadn’t, no.
Dascha: You hadn’t?
Nadia: Uh-uh [negative].
Dascha: What was the experience with that? Do you remember vividly?
Nadia: I do and it’s something that has influenced me ever since. So, I think, you know in New York City, Boricua pride and, you know, I think Boricua pride everywhere is like so strong. You know, we have the Puerto Rican Day Parade, it’s like how we dress, it’s, you know, sometimes going to Orchard Beach. It’s so ingrained in who we are. And then, I went to that—when I go to the island for the first time, I don’t speak the language, I don’t know any family members that are there. I felt like a tourist, right? So, it’s like, you grow up with this whole identity that is so deep inside of you and then to go to this place and feel like a stranger or an outsider. I was actually quite devastating to me. And it was something that changed me and I kind of set out to be very interested in the stories of identity in America and especially Puerto Rican identity and what that actually means. You know, what does it mean to be Boricua from the Bronx versus what does it mean to be Boricua from the islands?
Dascha: Yeah. I mean, it’s very interesting but I think all Latinos can relate to that in the sense that when they grow up here and they go back home, to their country, to their island, they have this sense of not belonging. Like we fight to belong here and we’re fighting to like be acknowledged here in the States. But when we go back it’s like that’s another battle we have to face. So, you can definitely say that we all experience that. And I wanted to ask you, when was it that you decided, as far as like the non-fiction doc directing, what was that door opening? What was that opportunity that helped you get there?
Nadia: Yeah, so, which I consider the day of like almost hitting the lotto for life was I had made a short film that, it was not a very good film first, I have to say. But I showed it in a local community. It was actually called the South Bronx Film Festival, this is how home grown, local community this thing was.
Dascha: I’ve heard of it; I’ve heard of it.
Nadia: So, I show my film there and a woman comes up to me after and she’s like, “I loved your movie.” You know, a white woman and I was like, “Oh, that’s so nice of you. Thank you so much.” And I was like really down on myself at the time. I was like, “I want to be a filmmaker but I have no idea. I don’t know anyone. How will this ever happen to me?” So, I was kind of like, “Yeah, thanks.” You know? And walk away. Someone comes to the back and they were like, “Do you know who that is?” And I was like, “No.” And they were like, “That’s Michael Moore’s producer.” And I was like, “Oh, really?” And they’re like, “You need to talk to her.” And so, they bring her back over and they’re like, “Okay, start again.” And I chatted with her and we exchanged contact info. And I think what she saw was the effort that I was trying to make. She’s like, “I really love your film, I love what you’re trying to do.” She’s like, “If there’s ever a chance that I can give you an opportunity, I will.” Right? And I was like, “That’s very kind of you to say.” You know, I never thought anything of it. And a few months later I get a call and she’s like, “I’m working with Michael on a new film, it’s called Fahrenheit 9/11 and I can hire you as a production assistant.” And she said, “I promise—” cause at the time I wanted to be a cinematographer. And so, she’s like, “I promise if there’s ever a chance for you to shoot I’ll make sure you get that chance.” And I was like, “Oh my God.” And so, I get this job. So, she’s like, “Come to work.” Like Monday I show up, I know nothing about being on set, I’ve never worked in film. I was a terrible PA, I didn’t know how to make coffee, I never worked in an office. I was a bouncer in night clubs, right? That was my background. I bounced in night clubs in New York.
Dascha: What club? Just in case, what club? What club? Because, you know.
Nadia: I bounced at Vinyl, Disco Tech, Crow Bar, I mean, all the big ones that everyone went to in like, you know, the early 2000s. So, I was totally from another world and you know, I look back now and I laugh and I’m like, “I probably would have fired me.” But she didn’t and she was very firm and was just like, “This is how you do this stuff.” And they didn’t give up on me and while I was working on that film, I ended up assisting one of the most well-known women cinematographer’s and director’s named Kirsten Johnson. And so, I just charged her batteries, got her water and carried her bags. That’s where I started and then when the film, you know, when the film wrapped, she ended up mentoring me still to this day. And then, I ended up filming a scene in Fahrenheit 9/11 which became a very famous scene in the film. And it was just by chance, we were trying to film the scene where Michael’s in the ice cream truck and he’s driving on Capital Hill reading The Patriot Act. And I had a little camera and the police wouldn’t let us stop the car to film. So, they open the door and I was like a kid and they were like, “Go chase that truck and shoot it.” You know? So, there’s this whole scene with Michael. So, I end up getting a camera credit in Fahrenheit 9/11 and that was the biggest documentary at the time. And my name sort of just started swirling around. Yeah.
Dascha: I mean, this is what I want people to hear. That it starts just with that one opportunity and I think that sometimes we resist. And we kind of like take things for granted and we don’t value ourselves enough to realize as much as we criticize our work out there, we are valuable enough for somebody to notice and give us that one opportunity.
Nadia: And see the potential, right? So, even if we’re not fully formed yet, it’s just the potential and the commitment of making something that’s so important. The first thing you make doesn’t have to perfect and it doesn’t have to necessarily be the most polished, you know? Like up there with these big budget films. But I think it's just the—it’s the exercise and the practice of doing that.
Dascha: Just opening the door, holding the door open for somebody and telling them, “Look, come in, get comfortable and then we can plan after.” So, I mean, I love it, I love to hear out it starts and I wanted to speak about your professional experience in these worlds. Because, let me tell you something, I watch documentaries and I’m an empath, so I cry over everything. I’m like, “What is going on?” Everything, I absorb everything and the way that you tell the story, your camera lens. Like, last year you shot the documentary After Maria.
Nadia: Hm-hmm [affirmative].
Dascha: Which follows the lives of three Puerto Rican women who bond in a FEMA hotel following Hurricane Maria. Wow. So full of emotion. Like there’s so much to tell and so much layers to this. How you captured that and I wanted to—was this a documentary that was a game changer for you professionally?
Nadia: Absolutely, yeah.
Dascha: Walk us through some of the emotions that you felt. Because, for me, I don’t know how I would be able to do it.
Nadia: Yeah.
Dascha: You know what I mean? Like being behind ever like, “We got to take a break. I need some—give me some something.”
Nadia: Yeah, yeah. Picking up from the last story I told you, so I end up—it sort of started my trajectory as working towards being a cinematographer and, you know, eventually that’s what I became. And I started shooting documentaries and I’ve been working as a CP now for like over 15 years. And so, I have travelled all over the world, have been in all types of scenarios and situations that are everything from, you know, magnificent and exhilarating to heartbreaking and just unimaginable, seeing unimaginable circumstances for people. So, that being said, I have learned how to cry and shoot at the same time. So, there were so many times being in those hotel rooms and, you know, some of the things that we were experiencing, you know, I would very quietly be moved to emotion but just keep doing what I was doing. And then, also knowing that if that’s the experience that I was having, hoping that audiences would also be connecting to these moments when they saw it on film.
Dascha: How did that come about? That idea of filming this?
Nadia: I was in LA and I was like trying to figure out what I was going to do. Like, what was the next thing that I was going to do? I started directing a bit and trying to do something new from being a cinematographer. And I kept reading all the coverage that was coming out of New York City about families that had to leave the island because of circumstances after the hurricane. And, you know, they were saying that families were staying at FEMA hotels and just sort of what was happening. And going back to one of the first questions you asked me, the lightbulb went on. And I was like, “This is my opportunity to not only highlight what’s happening to families but to tell a story of Puerto Rican identity. And what does it mean to leave your home?” Which nobody wants to do. It is one of the hardest decisions to make and families left because they were forced, because they were going to die. To leave your home, come to a strange place, that place is your country but you are not treated like the place is your country. Which is what happened to many Puerto Rican families who came to America. Many people did not speak English and the level of treatment that they were given was just unimaginable. And so, for me, I also wanted to explore, what does it mean to, you know, be an American citizen? To come from Puerto Rico to the mainland and be treated this way? And what does it mean to sort of—now you’re in a new place where there’s lots of Puerto Rican culture around you but that culture is also very different from the culture that you know? Nilda, the little girl in our film, she grew up in the mountains or Puerto Rico. The Bronx is a completely different world for her.
Dascha: Yeah, the only mountain up in the Bronx is what, Mount Eden?
Nadia: Mount Eden, yeah. Exactly.
Dascha: Like, that stop on the train, all right? I don’t know. So, I get it.
Nadia: Exactly.
Dascha: [Inaudible 00:20:19], right?
Nadia: Exactly. And so, just really trying to show that contrast of what that experience was like was really important for me.
Dascha: It’s definitely a culture shock but your contribution, by doing this film, was necessary. And for them to be brave enough to be vulnerable enough to document this in front of a camera. I must say, is something that you have to be very proud of, I’m very proud of you for that and proud of them.
Nadia: Yeah, true. I mean, and just speaking, sorry, it’s okay. But just speaking to how proud you are of them. You know, they took real agency in agreeing to do this, you know? I explained to them what it would take. It would mean me being in these very small spaces with them. But they said, “If you telling our story helps this not happen to even one other person, we are willing to participate.” So, they were absolute collaborators in understanding that and the hope that with storytelling this could prevent this horrible situation from happening to someone else. And that was so powerful.
Dascha: So, did they stay? Did they go back to Puerto Rico? Like, do you stay in contact with them?
Nadia: Yeah. So, I do stay in contact with them. All the families are still here and they were all placed into permanent housing eventually in the Bronx. But only because New York City has a program where parents with young children are given permanent housing through the shelter system, not because of the federal government. So, the federal government completely dropped the ball and then New York City definitely picked it up.
Dascha: And that’s only a family of three.
Nadia: And I also have to say that it took two years before all the families were placed. They were living in shelters for two years before they were placed in permanent housing.
Dascha: And that’s only a family of three. So, imagine the multitude of families that felt hopeless, that felt abandoned without being at fault. Right? Without being at fault and even if you are, I think its inhumane to, you know, cause trauma especially to kids that way. You know?
Nadia: I know, that was really the most heartbreaking part of it.
Dascha: Yeah.
Nadia: Of it all, you know? And like folks lived on farms, you know, one of the families, Sheila’s family, they lived on farms, they had farm animals. They didn’t want to come here; they didn’t want to come to live in the Bronx. I don’t blame them, you know, its just such a different life.
Dascha: But that being said, I mean, listen, so necessary and here you are again, this year, you have directed the Michelle Obama, new documentary Becoming, based on her memoire. And you document dozens of cities that she visited on her book tour. Wow, I mean, you just keep on rising.
Nadia: It’s still like almost a dream to me.
Dascha: Tell me, how did your name come up for this project? How did this happen? I mean, lord, I went to the last dance at the White House when Michelle Obama, before—girl. And I couldn’t even like go near them, I saw them, I was in the crowd and I was like, “Oh, my God, I want to hug you guys.” But I was jamming in the White House and I’m like, “Oh, my God, I can’t believe I’m in the White House, bitch. I’m up in this bitch, yeah.” You know? But seeing that, from the moment I started watching it I was like, crying, crying, crying, crying, crying, crying, crying. And I was just like, “Oh my God.” You are amazing. I can’t tell you enough. Please, tell me, tell me, tell me.
Nadia: Yeah, it’s crazy, I was sitting at my kitchen table just like I am now and I get a phone call. Priya Swaminathan, who is one of the heads of Higher Ground, the Obama’s production company, she’s like, “Hey.” She had found my name because I had done a very modest digital series with one of her closest friends. So, she’s like, “Mrs. Obama is getting ready to go on a book tour and we’re floating the idea of it being documented. And we don’t know what it’ll be yet, we don’t know if it’ll be a film. It could just be footage that lives in Mrs. Obama’s archive.” And she’s like, “Would you be interested in it?” And I was like, “Definitely.” Even if it doesn’t become a film, just the experience of being with Mrs. Obama was mind blowing to me. But of course, there were a few layers to get through. So, we have a few phone calls and then one day I get an e-mail that says, “You have an appointment at the office or Michelle and Barack Obama.” And I was like, just jaw drop. And I was like, “Oh, my God, what do I do?” And I was like, “Prepare, prepare, how do you prepare? What do you do? How do you prepare for this?” Right?
Dascha: What do you wear? What do you wear? Like, what do you smell like? What?
Nadia: Yeah, exactly.
Dascha: Oh, my God.
Nadia: So, um, I was like, “Okay.” I went and I watched every speech of hers that I could find on YouTube. I read every magazine article that she had been featured in. I went back and read both of the president’s books. I had three weeks and I listened to every podcast so that I could hear her voice. I was like, “I’m never going to get this job but I’m sure as hell going to be as prepared as I could possibly be.”
Dascha: Do you hear that, people? Do you hear that? Prepare, prepare, go in there prepared. Research, it’s important.
Nadia: So important, so important, know who you’re talking to. And so, the day that I, you know, my appointment day comes up, I take the train to D.C. And, you know, I arrive and they’re like, “Okay, Mrs. Obama is ready to see you. You have 30 minutes and if she connects with you, you have the job.” I was like, “No pressure, okay.”
Dascha: Connects, what does that even mean? I’m already connected.
Nadia: I remember, like walking in her office and its like this softly, beautifully lit room with art work on the wall. It felt like a dream. I was like, “Am I dreaming? Is this really happening? This is crazy.” So, Mrs. Obama’s sitting in the far corner and she stands up and she’s very tall and I’m not tall. And she just like towers over me and I extend my hand to give her a handshake and, in my nervousness, I give her like the most weird, awkward handshake and like our fingers like go like that. And I’m like, “Oh man, I am messing this up already.” And she’s just like, “I’m a hugger.” And I was like, “Me too.” And she gives me like the biggest hug and totally calmed me down.
Dascha: Ay dios mio.
Nadia: I know.
Dascha: I would die, ay dios mio. What is her sign? I’m just wondering because I was dying to find out what’s her sign. What’s her sign?
Nadia: January 17.
Dascha: January?
Nadia: Yeah, January 17.
Dascha: Oh, she’s a Capricorn.
Nadia: Capricorn.
Dascha: Interesting.
Nadia: And so, then we sit down and we just started talking. And you know, we talked about our neighborhoods, where we grew up. You know? She’s from the south side of Chicago, I’m from the south Bronx so we totally had that—where our neighborhoods shaped us, it’s who we are. We talked about our moms. You know, she’s really tight with her mom, I’m tight with my mom. So, it was just like, we just connected on a very human level and then she was like, “What idea do you have for the film?” And I told her and she was like, “Let’s do this.”
Dascha: I would die.
Nadia: I was like, “Oh, my God.”
Dascha: Oh my God, I’m so excited for you and it already happened. I’m like, “Ahh.” So, for those who only dream of working with Mrs. Obama, describe the collaborative process with her to shape the film.
Nadia: Sure, so, you know, I told her my ideas and she, you know, and the idea other than telling here story was I was very interested in telling a story about storytelling. So, what does it mean to share your story and sort of go out in the world and have people receive it and also this exchange that happens? I think at the same time that I met her I had been sort of reflecting on my own life and thinking about who am I and how do I know the things that I know? And I was like, well, I’ve been listening to people tell their stories for like 17 years now. It’s all I’ve ever done and so much of my understanding of the world has come from listening to people tell their stories. And I thought that that was really interesting and I wanted to try to weave that element into the film. And so, we just shot and we just shot and shot and we kind of kept going. We decided, May 6 was always going to be our release date and that’s a very fast shoot/edit schedule.
Dascha: So, when did you start it? You started last year?
Nadia: Yeah, we started at the end of 2018. She went on a tour around like November 2018. Yeah, so it’s been like a year and a half now since we first started filming.
Dascha: Wow, that’s a quick turnaround.
Nadia: Very, with post and everything, like, it’s very fast.
Dascha: For those that don’t know, it takes a while guys. For those that don’t know, it does take a while so that’s really fast.
Nadia: But yeah, so you asked about the collaborative process and she just let me do my thing. We made a film and I eventually showed her that film and she liked my idea, she liked what I was doing. And if anything, she actually helped deepen some of my understanding of her own story. You know, knowing no sister are better than her. So, she’ll like, “That thing, that story you’re telling, this thing also happened on that day, you should look into that. And this also happened.” And I’m like, “Awesome.” And so, she really contributed in wonderful ways in helping me do those things.
Dascha: Are there any memories that didn’t make the cut? Anything embedded in you that resonated but just didn’t make the cut for the doc?
Nadia: You know, I would just say that Mrs. Obama and I, I think we developed a really kind of intimate and fun friendship. She’s so interested in other people and it would be late at night, the camera would be off and we would just stay up talking and having these like really amazing conversations. And she was so focused and locked in, the way you see her in the film and it’s like she was so interested in my life and I think just some of those personal moments with her, I’ll just never forget. I think that that’s so extraordinary.
Dascha: Isn’t it amazing when you meet these iconic individuals that they just, they’re so present and they—I find that, with all respect to you, it also uplifts you in a way that you’re like, “Yo, I’m ready for the next thing. What’s up? Come one, I’m ready, come on. I was just with Michelle, don’t play with me. I’m backed up, honey. Okay?”
Nadia: You know, that is correct. I mean, even while making the film, you know, there’s so many insecurities that come up. I’m like, “This is my first feature film.” I’m a very experienced member of a crew, you know? I’ve shot many, many documentaries but, I mean, no ones made a Michelle Obama film before. You know? And so, there were times when I was like, “This is so hard, can I even do this?” You know? And then, I would be in the arena and I’d be hearing her tell here story and I’d be like, “Yes, I can do this. Mrs. Obama did this, I can do this.” I just really drew from the strength that she has and she’s so giving of it. And yeah, and so after that you’re like, “Okay.” You know? And you see it even happen in the film when she meets young women, she has this transfer of power and this transfer of confidence that she wants to give you. She wants you to have it.
Dascha: And it transcends through, even through the screen, it transcends. I mean, in the doc, when she says, “When somebody walks up to me, don’t look around, don’t look beyond them. Do look them in the eye and take in the story.” When I heard that I was like, “Holy. I’m not going crazy.” Because I’ve always had an issue with people looking up or not paying attention. You know, in this industry, that’s one of the problems that I still continue to have is going to these networking things.
Nadia: And everyone’s like—
Dascha: I’m like, “I really don’t want to.” Yeah.
Nadia: … “Who’s that? Who else is in the room?”
Dascha: And I’m like, “Yeah.” But you do.
Nadia: It’s so heavy.
Dascha: You know, I’ve been on a carpet and people are like, “Hey, Dascha, so what are you…” and they’re like looking at the next person coming down. And I’m like, you know, it’s like you take seconds or you take minutes to acknowledge somebody and to just make them feel present. And you don’t realize the impact that it has. And so, when that happened, when she said that I just felt like this, I was like, “Yo, this woman is—this is who I am.” You know what I mean? So, do you feel similarly when you’re capturing your interview subjects or when the experience of like looking at the first lady in the eye. You capture that so many times, you felt it.
Nadia: So, as I started to spend time with Mrs. Obama, what you just meant is what I felt too. I was just like, “This is a unique quality, a tremendously unique quality that I need to figure out how and audience is going to tap into. Like, I want them to feel what I’m feeling right now. I want them to see what I’m seeing.” And so, for me, again, being a cinematographer, I was like, “I have to get close, like I have to be very close to her.” And at the beginning that was like difficult because there’s secret service around her all the time and there’s lots of stuff happening so it’s not always easy to like just be physically close to her. And I was scared too, like I’m like the new kid around. Like everyone else has been around for 12 years.
Dascha: Because you experienced that.
Nadia: Yes.
Dascha: Because you’ve had that ‘look me in the eye connection’ with Mrs. Michelle Obama.
Nadia: Yes.
Dascha: So, tell me the connection from your experience to that, right?
Nadia: Yeah, so I was just like, “I can’t be afraid to do what I need to do to make this film feel the way I know it needs to feel.” And so, I had to overcome that fear. You know, you got to overcome that shit quick. It’s like, “Scared? Okay, get over, move on. Just do what you got to do.” And you know, Mrs. Obama’s awesome. She’s like one of the bravest people. I mean, imagine the line that she put herself in and performed the way that she did. You know, she has an intense focus and has gone through so much. So, I’m like, “If Mrs. Obama could do it, I could do it.” You don’t know how many times I told myself that. Probably even still this week when it’s like, you got to do all this press and it’s scary and it’s all this stuff. And I’m like, “If Mrs. Obama can do it, I can do it.” It’s just this mantra that I now will probably have with me forever.
Dascha: And you’re doing it so well, honey.
Nadia: Thank you.
Dascha: In the doc, during a visit to her alma mater, the Whitney M. Young Magnet School in Chicago, Mrs. Obama meets Elizabeth Cervantes. A Latina who we find out is expected to be one of the first people in her family to graduate high school. All while she’s been working to support her father and three brothers. You later return to Whitney Young last year to film her last day of school and graduation. And so, can you talk about the decision to highlight Elizabeth in the film?
Nadia: Yeah, so she had this really special connection with Elizabeth. That, you know, I felt it in the moment but then when we went back and looked at the footage, it was overwhelmingly evident. And Elizabeth’s story is, she’s like, “I don’t even know why I’m here, why I was chosen to do this. I’m not special. I may not have the best grades or be involved in all the school activities.” And Mrs. Obama’s like—but she’s like, “You know, because I’m busy working after school to help my family.” Mrs. Obama is like, “That is what is special about you.” And she just gave Elizabeth—she did that transfer of power that she does. And, you know, she really wanted, you know, even if she had the opportunity for one minute to tell Elizabeth how special she is. So that, you know, the idea that Elizabeth would have that confidence walking out of that room. Mrs. Obama does that and she does it intentionally, she wants you to feel that way. And when we saw that, you know, we were like, Elizabeth’s cool. Like, let’s, you know, let’s call her and let’s talk to her. And when we spoke to her, she was just so wonderful, she’s an awesome young person. And we were like, “We’re going to come, we’re going to come to school. You know, we’re going to come film with you some more.” And it turned out that when we went it was her last day of high school which was such an emotional experience for us. We’re like, “Remember the last day of high school?” You know? And it was just really fun doing that actually.
Dascha: Wow and, you know, look, there are so many moments in the doc where I found myself tearing up. Seeing the Obama’s become the first black family to hold space in the White House. And the first family ever for us to feel related to. And the mental and emotional growth of Mrs. Obama, seeing people around the country portrayed as good no matter where they came from. And also, I wanted to ask you how invested or not do you get emotionally during these pivotal moments while you’re doing this, while you’re shooting this? I mean—
Nadia: I do get emotional when I’m filming. There are times when I’m like—the hardest thing about when you’re filming and crying is like, my head is already down, so like all the tears are going in the viewfinder and I’m like, “I can’t see.” And then, you know, we kind of had this running joke with my producer and stuff, because we would just cry so much. And we would cry or be watching cuts and we would see a scene, like you’ve literally watched the film hundreds of times before you lock picture and we would still be crying. And we would just laugh at each other for still crying. I’m like, “Are you still crying during that scene?” You know? But it’s important to be moved when you’re making something. Again, because I think for me, that’s the thing that makes me confident that other people will be moved as well. If I watch something and I’m not emotional, I’m like, “Well, you know, I’m the only one that gets to see this until it’s public so I have to be emotionally moved.” And there were so many, I mean countless times with Mrs. Obama where, you know, she would just say things and it—
Dascha: Listen.
Nadia: That’s the strength that she has that I just look at her and I’m just like, “You are brave and courageous and unafraid, it’s like I don’t know. It’s just tremendous, you know?
Dascha: So, when speaking with young women Mrs. Obama says she’s never felt invisible because she refused to allow herself to. Do you struggle with that in your field?
Nadia: Oh, absolutely. So many industries are, you know, male dominated, white male dominated and as most people know, the business of filmmaking is like not the most diverse community of people.
Dascha: It’s not, hm-hmm [affirmative].
Nadia: And while I have had a tremendous amount of support in my life, and that is the reason why I am here from all types of folks and I am very, very fortunate. People have worked so hard to lift me up to get me where I am. But there’s like thousands of other Me’s out there that need the same amount of encouragement, the same amount of support, the same amount of opportunities. How do we make sure that that level of mentorship and stuff like that is available for people? Because our field is lacking in that way.
Dascha: Definitely and I’m glad that you’re speaking about that, the fields. And I wanted to get your thoughts on looking ahead at the industry, right? A 2019 report from the USC Annenberg Inclusion Initiative looked at the 1200 top grossing films from 2007 to 2018 and found that only one director out of 1335 individuals was a Latina. Wow, isn’t that crazy? How diverse, aren’t we so diverse? Look at that, we’re not. Where you familiar with that stat?
Nadia: I had no idea about that very particular statistic at all, at all. It’s not looking good statistic-wise for women, for people of color even more so. I mean, you know, on every level, even as a cinematographer, you know, I think women make up like 2% of cinematographer’s working across the industry. That’s crazy and then the opportunities that are—we know, this has sort of been like the golden age with all these incredible platforms, more films are being made. This is supposed to be like the golden age of filmmaking and those opportunities aren’t getting—that love is not necessarily always being spread to people. But again, I got to say, I know this is a Netflix podcast but Netflix gave me my first huge opportunity with After Maria. They really invested in me and they believed in me. My executive producer, Roger Ross Williams, he brought the idea. I had been shooting his movie The Apollo documentary. And I told him what I was working on and he was like, “I want to take that to Netflix.” And he was like, “I want to be your EP and take that to Netflix.” And I was like, “Okay.” And that’s when stream led us like this. They believed in me and they trusted Roger to help manage the project and they gave me my first big opportunity to work with more resources and also to learn how to work with Netflix. Because working with platforms and things like that, there’s different deliverables and all these things that you have to do, tech specs. All these things I’m saying that may not mean a lot to people. But what that did was that prepared me so that when I got this huge opportunity making a Netflix film about Mrs. Obama, I felt prepared, I felt like I’ve done this before in some capacity. You know? And Netflix really looked out and they did that and they were incredibly supportive so I appreciate that a lot.
Dascha: Shout out to Netflix, okay, okay. You know I was taking the time to calculate the percentage because some people don’t understand. One director out of 1335, that’s, if I’m doing it right, if my algebra kicks in, 0.0007%.
Nadia: Oh, my gosh.
Dascha: That’s a huge problem for me and that’s something that we’ll talking about a lot.
Nadia: Yes.
Dascha: We’ll be talking about a lot. What has your experience been navigating the business as a black and Latina woman? Do you feel part of the community of filmmakers of color?
Nadia: Hmm, I absolutely do, you know? I think I have a very unique experience, I think, working in documentary, working in film. Because my background as a cinematographer meant that I had worked closely collaborating with other filmmakers for a very long time before I started directing. And many of the filmmakers that first gave me my opportunity to shoot their movies were people of color. Other people of color hired me; other women hired me. There were some men, a handful of white men that hired me, shout out to all of those guys because I love them too. But it was not an overwhelming percentage. I think if wasn’t for people of color and women hiring me, I would not be where I am today. So, that being said, I do feel deeply a part of that community because that community sort of like, they nurtured me and they helped me grow to get me to where I am. So, I’m very fortunate in that sense.
Dascha: I mean, hello. It’s the web that we create, right? That’s the web that we have to continue to create. What are some of the tips you might have for up and coming directors and cinematographers?
Nadia: Some tips I would have is create as much as you can, it’s all a practice. And you get better the more you do it. And whether or not you think you’re being recognized for your work immediately; it will pay off. Show up, make stuff, collaborate with your friends, do it in any way that you can. But there’s value in all of it and go to—we can’t go to festivals right now but when we can safely, go to festivals, get out there and meet people, relationships are paramount in this industry. If people know you and they like you and they know that you’re a hardworking, committed person, they will go an extra distance to help you. And I think that, you know, we all need that level of support because making films is incredibly hard. It’s also really, really, really hard so, don’t get disappointed if it’s not easy because it’s not easy actually for anyone. And there are going to be tremendous obstacles but don’t give up because its hard. Just know that if it’s hard, it’s because you’re doing it right. You care enough that every detail matters and you’re doing it right. I’ve been working this business for 17 years and I just directed my first feature. So, that is insanely long.
Dascha: I’m so happy for you.
Nadia: You know? But I did everything from being a production assistant and like driving people to airports and getting coffee to—
Dascha: The steps.
Nadia: … directing, you know, documentaries.
Dascha: There’s levels to this, right?
Nadia: There’s definitely levels, yeah.
Dascha: What was one of the fear or hesitations you had to overcome that really allowed you to step into your creative power?
Nadia: I think I, to be honest, I always felt undereducated, even with a college degree.
Dascha: Me too. Oh my God. Come on, speak, I want to hear this.
Nadia: Yeah, I mean, it’s real. And, you know, I think it was incredibly intimidating for me coming into this space and many of my colleagues went to Harvard, Yale, Brown, all the Ivy League Universities. I went to public school in the south Bronx my whole life and I went to Hunter College where I got a great education but I had been undereducated for such a long time that I didn’t have a lifetime of commitment and support in education. And so, I was very afraid to speak because I felt inarticulate. And so, I always became the quietest person on set and people would ask me a question, I would just answer it. I wouldn’t give my opinion; I wouldn’t share my opinion. And I always told myself, one of my goals is to feel comfortable sharing my opinion, to be able to express my opinion. But at the same time, I do believe that there was a strength that I developed in this quiet presence. I think it, as you know, in many fields or arenas or rooms, the voices are so loud and there’s so much competition to be the loudest voice. And I just told myself, I was like, “I’m not going to ever be louder or more articulate then the people in this room, so I’m just going to be chill.” And so many people have said to me, “Your quiet presence is the most powerful presence here.” And to me, I was like, “Wow, that was never my strategy.” But I always listened, I always payed attention and that is really, I think now I could look back and say that that’s something that really helped me. But, yeah, I definitely always felt like I can’t compete in these rooms.
Dascha: I thought the same, oh my God. Sister, I could call you my sister, Jesus, that’s something that I just resonate so much with. I wanted to ask you, in keeping with the documentary’s title, who were you looking forward to becoming in the future?
Nadia: That’s a great question that I have not been asked. I think I am always striving to become a more considerate, thoughtful, loving, generous person and a person that is like deeply invested in community. And I just am always looking to strengthen those things, so, I hope those are the things that I’m becoming. How about you? I’m going to ask you the same question. Who are you becoming?
Dascha: Oh, my God, who am I becoming? Embracing myself more, valuing myself more. Enough to share my power with others and ignite inspiration with others. I just have to light everyone up, you know? You got to pass on the torch and that’s what I’m about. And speaking my mind and not feeling like, you know, not giving yourself enough credit. I’m telling you, that documentary, I was like, “Yo, how the hell? I don’t respect myself enough to understand that that is my power. I was able to hold three jobs and to put myself through school.” And the idea of like, “Oh, I’m a teen mom.” And I’m like, “Ewe, I’m not cool like everybody else.” No, that is your power, that you were able to do all that and handle all that and still be who you are and still be strengthened. And so, I don’t know, just accepting myself more and giving myself more credit, you know?
Nadia: Yeah.
Dascha: Just being kinder to myself and collaborating with people like you. Educating myself about my iconic individuals in my community that I have to, you know, highlight and bring forth to our youth. It’s very important to me. But, enough about me, this is about you.
Nadia: I know, I’m like, “I can’t go this whole time without asking you one question.”
[Music]
Dascha: [Spanish 00:49:48]. It’s not easy being the first lady. Just ask Columbian American filmmaker Patricia Cardoso. The award-winning writer, director and producer is best known for her 2002 instant classic, Real Women Have Curves starring a then unknown America Ferrera. The film immediately captivated Latino audiences, it started, for me a representation and offered mainstream viewers a window into authentic Latino storytelling. Critics have called it one of the most influential movies of the 2000s. In fact, it was just included in the National Film Registry at the Library of Congress this past January because of its cinematic contributions to the culture. That makes Cardoso the first Latina ever in the National Film Registry. She said of the historic announcement, “For me, being one of the first Latina women directors is very important. But I wish I wasn’t the first one. I wish there were many, many more before me and certainly hope there are many more coming behind me.” The truth is, Cardoso has led the way on multiple occasions considering Latinas make up less than 1%. Yep, 1% of all directors. She was previously the first Latina to win the coveted Audience Award at the Sundance Film Festival for Real Women Have Curves. And also, the first to win a Student Academy Award for 1996’s The Water Carrier. Additionally, she directed the first HBO movie ever released theatrically and holds the honor of directing Columbia’s highest grossing female led picture. Patricia Cardoso, our community’s first lady of film. [Spanish 00:51:37].
[Music]
Dascha: This podcast is a love letter to our communities but we also like to ask all our guests some general questions about love and relationships. So, we have a few questions for you.
Nadia: Okay.
Dascha: You know how this has to go down; you know.
Nadia: I know, I’m media trained, I’ll say the right things.
Dascha: And you know how we get down; we always need a little tea. So, are documentaries good date movies?
Nadia: Yes, absolutely.
Dascha: I agree. What is a non-negotiable with a potential partner?
Nadia: Being organized.
Dascha: Yo, for real, for real. Come on, okay. Any important love lessons you learned from watching the Obama’s?
Nadia: No relationship is perfect.
Dascha: Oh, my God, come on. Can you see yourself with someone who doesn’t appreciate films or filmmaking?
Nadia: Probably not.
Dascha: Okay. And now, we’re going to do a little game that we call Cancion es Con Todo. So, what are you listening to right now?
Nadia: Oh, God, I think I’m—okay, I’ve been in quarantine for like almost 60 days people. I was listening to Babyface the other day.
Dascha: Okay, some Babyface, I was listening to SWB the other day.
Nadia: All right, yeah, so I’m probably taking it back in the greats, right?
Dascha: Come on. What song always makes you sad?
Nadia: Mary J. Blige, “I’m Going Down.”
Dascha: Oh, my God.
Nadia: That’s like that high school, heart break music. Like now, I’ve got nothing else [inaudible 00:53:13].
Dascha: With them twisty earrings. I need to get myself another pair of those because I had those, honey. Mary J. is the one. What song makes you feel romantic?
Nadia: I am not the most romantic person; I’m going to be honest. So, I have to pass on that question.
Dascha: You don’t think—Mary J. is not romantic? Because—
Nadia: [Inaudible 00:53:34].
Dascha: … that’s romance right there. Just, you know, it’s a heartbreak romance story.
Nadia: That’s like heartbreak, yeah.
Dascha: We all have a little romantic-ness in us. We just like cringy, you know, now we get a little cringy, we let it go.
Nadia: Yeah.
Dascha: But we have our moments. What is your go to musica para limpiar, to clean?
Nadia: I’d say probably Drake.
Dascha: Wow, okay, Drake be making people clean up, okay.
Nadia: At 6:00 in the morning like a real Puerto Rican, hello.
Dascha: Someone that reminds you of your parents?
Nadia: My mom, she loved Patti LaBelle, so Patti LaBelle music is like my mom’s music, that reminds of my mom all the time.
Dascha: Song that no matter when, where you hear it you have to drop everything to sing along?
Nadia: Diana Ross, “Love Hangover”. I love that song.
Dascha: And I love her.
Nadia: Classic, classic.
Dascha: I love her. Do you have a favorite move soundtrack?
Nadia: I do and that’s what got me to Babyface, Boomerang. Dude, I’m giving away my age right now.
Dascha: Boomerang, baby, honey, don’t worry about that, we’re ageless.
Nadia: Yeah.
Dascha: Remember that. There’s a lot of Frank Ocean in the doc. Oh, my God, that song at the end, oh my God. Is that a fav artist of the Obama’s?
Nadia: It is, yes and me so it was a great match.
Dascha: It was meant to be. I love Frank Ocean too, see it’s all three of us, I’m part of the Obama’s now, yay. What a great interview.
Nadia: Thank you so much. I’ve had so much fun talking to you.
Dascha: To speak to you, oh my God.
Nadia: You have brightened my day, my quarantine day.
Dascha: Oh my God, wait, hold on, hold on, hold on. Am I safe to say, because I never belonged to a sorority or anything like that, so, I’m like a Hunter College Alumni so you’re like my Alumni sister?
Nadia: Yeah, we’re sisters, yes.
Dascha: I love that and I like to end each podcast with an affirmation to our community. And I would love for you to go ahead and send our people your beautiful message and voice. What they need to hear in these times or whatever you feel like expressing to them.
Nadia: Sure, I want to tell people that we are strong people, we are loving people. We are people that I know strangers to struggle. We will get through this moment; we will get through everything that is put in front of us because there is nothing that we cannot do.
Dascha: Wow, you hear that? There’s nothing that we cannot do. Amazing. Love you all, thank you for tuning in. Nadia, oh my God, I love you.
Nadia: Thank you, I’m giving you big hug.
Dascha: We’re doing a quarantine, social distancing hug through Zoom babies.
Nadia: Yes. All right, have a great day.
Dascha: Oh my God. You too, mi amor ti a todo. Thank you.
Nadia: All right, take care, bye-bye.
Dascha: This show was produced my Netflix, Con Todo and me, Dascha Polanco. If you like what you heard be sure to rate and subscribe on iTunes, Spotify or wherever you listen to podcasts. And don’t forget to follow @ConTodoNetflix on Instagram and Twitter for all thing’s Latin excellence on Netflix. Also, follow me @SheIsDash, I’ve been your host Dascha Polanco. Join me next week as I talk to the dynamic Dominicans’ Sasha Merci and Darlene Demorizi about The New Hustle. [Spanish 00:57:00].